Before you go dating your ka-bar knife, I think you might want to know some of the challenges that you could encounter, and why. The design features for this knife came about through various inputs from servicemembers, survivability researchers, and training developers. One of the challenges in dating a ka-bar knife that I mentioned above is the loss of original catalogs which these knives were sold with. This happens quite often. Some shady knife enthusiasts might want to get the knife from you at a steal price or in a swap deal for something else. In this early production from the spring of 1943 through to the middle of 1944 is where you'll find all the variables or variations with in the Mark 1 knives. ? This was one of Its total length is 292mm (11 5/8 inches). December 15, 2017 in EDGED WEAPONS. Im not a fan of social media and dont use it. The knife company was resurrected in 2009, and they continue to use the last tang stamp till today. Made for Sears & Roebucks. Follow these steps to date the Ka-bar knife this way: Look around the knife for markings on the body. I just bought this knife from Ontario Knife Company. If you, Read More How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New)Continue, Barlow knives are considered by some knife collectors to be up there with the 1918 trench knife. After all, that is what they practically do for a living. It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. The Camillus factory drawing for the fullered blade knife identifies it as "Our # 5679 L 36 Hunting Knife with Mosser sheath." Glen, selected. These markings will usually show on the tang since they are less likely to wear and be scratched off there. Price $15,000.00, #5665 L66: This is the prototype for the WW II Army Air When you have a knife that meets the specs above, it could only have been made in 1944 or 1945. Maybe you can help me out here. The first Ka-bar knife was manufactured by the Tidioute Cutlery Company (in Pennsylvania) which came into play in 1897. We place the WW II era blade with S numbers. Not all Ka-bar knives will have a serial number, but checking this fine detail would make sense where possible. flat sided pommel to be used for hammering prior to the adoption of the hex repro has a very short and sharply curved false edge. Not an easy knife to resharpen and the very tip was prone to breaking off. I have not Kent Stagged Rosewood with steel rivets, same as above. is the only one that survived the Marines. I havent had the opportunity to measure it as its not in my possession and never was, I simply saw it. Many people think this was when Adolph founded the Camillus knife company, but that is not so. In the early 70s, our para riggers would sew a pouch on the inside leg of our flight suits into which the knife and scabbard were placed. S-4007 hand marked on the blade, Guardless and serrated I know how well "Orvet" makes customs. The Camillus S1765P USAF Utility Knife Tobias Gibson 7.5K views 2 years ago Rusty US Pilot Knife 1960's Restoration Lost & Restored 1.2M views 1 year ago Five US Military Pocket Knives from. Engineers. I also have the original sheath though the front pocket and stone have disappeared. Its blade is double-edged and has a length of 170mm (6 11/16 inches). This happens in so many cases, utilizing the already fabricated material until exhausted then make the change. I'll leave it at this, there is some conjecture out there on what these knives might or might not be. 5684 S50: Dated 8/21/1945 this design uses the Mark 2 blade, Here are some ways to identify a fake Camillus knife: The tang stamps are all over the place; There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; The font is a bit off; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife) Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor We have over 75,000 pieces of Boy and Girl Scout Memorabilia to sell. But if its an Asian imitation then its hard to determine when it was made. the knife not a saw back. The genesis of the Air Force Survival Knife goes back to the 1950s at the dawn of the jet age. In New York City. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. That sold this great knife with blade, hilt and butt blued. It was used to open C-rations, cutting vines, skinning game and fish. Many thanks! I also personally packed these knives up Ken Spielvogel - The "Accumulator" of knives- "The Talking Knives". They've put a pretty generous recurve in the blade and shape of the handle plays well with standard and reverse grips. head pommel. As a flight equipment Marine. Fortunately for us, Camillus changed their stamps enough to map each one to different periods. Like every other knife Ive dated, the Camillus knives are challenging in their way. Wouldn't mind running across one of these to compare to my two examples. By This is usually where I first look at when dating knives. There are also extensive catalogs on the knife brand, making my work easier. Dont expect to find an expert that will date your knife for free. In the end, it proved to be a logistical nightmare, however, Robeson did make the switch. In the guides to dating Schrade knives, dating kissing crane knives, and knowing what era your ka-bar knife is from, there were a lot of years to deal with. The USMC solicited bids from several knife of Tom Williams, Camillus factory historian, I have assembled the To recuperate some of the money that they had spent producing blades and knife components, Marble offered a civilian version of the knife to the public in 1961. I believe the two holes in the blade guard was to dummy cord the knife. Im happy to see that youre entering the world of knife collection. They are back again and better then ever. It isnt worth that much plus its actually a pretty good knife. Some companies marked them and some did not. Any information you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Production date date 3/25/1943. Adolph Kastor, the founder of the Camillus cutlery company, came to the U.S.A at the age of 14. This is a testimony to the ingenuity of the design team that developed the knife at the Marbles company. Ive read reviews that claim the new ones (from Ontario) are not as good. Very creative, one of the nicer sites I have seen today. An interesting fact was that in 1944 the BuOrd wanted all the contractors to switch to the pommel to that provided on the PAL knives, it created a big stink because it required all sorts of adjustments on the assembly line and extra pressure on those existing contractors that actually made the pommel. Relevant!! There are many variables to take into consideration and a general genealogy of dating can be made with Mark 1 knives. #3 Speak with Knife Collectors and Dealers. silver. It is assumed that such information resides in the archives of the companies that have manufactured the knife as well as the files of the DoD. There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife), Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor. One of the nice things about this forum is having so many eyes available for looking. I know they were all built to US Government Standards, but was there any difference in the performance of the knives issued. where possible. That same year, the Marble-Arms Corporation (now known as Marbles) began work on designing their prototype for the survival knife based on the government specifications. Is it a genuine vintage or merely a reproduction? Did your Camillus knife go to the war? The large guard is nickel Mikedon thanks for posting the pictures. The one on the left there is a bevel at the top of the grip. Thanks for your response. We have seen it in outfitter stores, marketed on the internet, and may even have owned one. It is the SP 2, Survival Knife. This registration, granted in 1980, is for use of paranitrophenol as a fungicide incorporated into leather for military use, at a concentration not to exceed 0.7% on the basis of dry finished leather weight. by ken6 Wed May 29, 2013 11:11 pm, Post While somewhat similar the fullered blade knives are a distinct model and are most often associated with the USAAF, not the Navy. rivets. Era" knife. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false Probably not a Pro-Tec pointed dagger, but it's real novel. Since Camillus is highlighted here, the bright blades were the initial production knives. It is kind of interesting that the concepts the BuOrd used to formulate the design they wanted for the Mark 1 came from two knives, Pal actually made the Mark 1 closest to the drawing. This is the guard-marked type with a "plain" unmarked blade. I have 2 Camillus Knives that are similar but different. Rosewood and steel domed rivets. If you dont have both the repro and original side by side, you might not be able to tell the difference sometimes. The stamping was kind of inconsistent from my research. Your guidelines seem to contradict themselves:The knife has a thin, pinned pommelWW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinnedWhich is it: they are pinned or they are not?Please let me know, than you. Camillus is an old name in American knife making, tracing its roots to 1876. You ought to take part in a contest for one of the best sites on the net. by orvet Tue May 28, 2013 1:20 pm, Post It may not display this or other websites correctly. Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. The Camillus Cutlery Company was one of the oldest knife manufacturers in the United States with roots dating back to 1876. Thanks! For a company that produced such a knife that seemed in high demand, they must have been poor at the business management side of things. Schrade Knife Identification (www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us) Schrade Knives (AAPK-All About Pocket Knives) Victorinox. IMHO, both knives fit into the category of Navy Mark1 knives. While that might make it harder to identify what a true Ka-bar knife is, though, it is a blessing in disguise sometimes. If the Marines had a Para knife The 1954 update calls for the knife to have a sharpened clip point blade and an additional rivet to the sheath. oldjunkagain. No matter the reason for wanting to date that blade, these methods will get you an accurate year or an era, at worst. I have sent you an email to see how I may be able to help. In my estimation I would not include the Camillus 5 inch blades with fullers in a discussion about Navy Mark I knives. Look at these two knives in the photo below. Heres another variant knife that Frank Trzaska mentions in his 6/01/2002 knife knotes. We were allowed to keep them when dicharged. unknown variant like the Marbles above. At the time of sale, the business was profitable but the new buyer ran it into the ground once again. Both marked CAMILLUS over N.Y. but the one on the left the font is larger. surely wasn't in Vietnam unless it was with a tourist. Your email address will not be published. Dear Major,I have had this knife for 30 years when I picked one up at local sporting goods store ,it served me well but, sadly had it stolen a few years ago.my question is how to safely (without too much damage to tang or butt plate (large nut square hole) to change handle ? As such, finding a definitive history of the development and procurement of this knife is difficult to reconstruct. So both of mine in the first post are wartime? Note the scabbards with and without sheet I apologize for the delay in responding to your question. So, whats unique about the history of the Camillus knives? We can go down the list for all the contractors. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. with steel domed rivets. J-7 marked Kent with Sportsman etching and stagged The condition of the knife is worn, but otherwise good. Navy didn't agree. Hello, It doesn't get much better then this one. ). Another Kent with stagged Rosewood, brass pins and etched. Thanks for filling in the blanks. Ka-bar did not just make straight knives or folding knives. I was in Boy Scouts. Western made two: one with a 6-inch blade, the G46-6, and one with a 5-inch blade, the G46-5. He started importing and selling German-made knives to his U.S. audience. Camillus Cuda Bolt Spring Assisted Knife Gray (3.625" Black) CM19080 MSRP: $50.99 Our Price: $43.95 Add to Cart Camillus Erupt Spring Assisted Knife Black GRN (2.5" Black) Our Price: $33.95 Add to Cart Camillus HEAT Spring Assisted Knife Black GFN (3.5" Black) CM19167 Our Price: $55.95 Add to Cart In June of '60, the contract was changed to requiring a peened pommel (as was used on all later production). Camillus stagged bone grips with brass pins. From DIY approaches to unconventional models and even taking the knife to experts, one of these methods will get you a proper timeline of your knife. The topic got side tracked here a little bit with the USAAC hunting knives, those with the fuller blade. the knife is a Camillus model number 5733. Thanks for the info major. Thank you, this is a very informative treatise on this knife. Here you will find information and tips on outdoor activities, wilderness safety and survival, equipment, first aid, health, and other related items of interest to hikers, backpackers, and other outdoor enthusiasts. Unknown: Believed to be a special hunting knife made for You need to get the knife out to cut your way out. That, however, only makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from a more interesting affair. Camillus produced the Jet Pilot Survival Knife with a 5-inch blade from 1961-2006. But this is Ontario. Any review of World War II military fixed blades must include several examples of Western knives. Model number 5686. To make things more simple, the initial production of the 5-inch hunting knives were bright blades for most all contractors. The knife was originally designed in 1957 as a joint issue between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the Marbles Arms Company. Is this unusual? originals and always set off an alarm when looking for an original They got into every kind of game and having different manufacturers along the line meant that they all didnt have to stick to the same design philosophy. Both have leather grips. Ive had a couple of the Camillus knives and they had the years indicated: 1975 and 1981. Besides showing you how to date a Camillus knife properly, I also give some tips to avoid falling into the fake vintage Camillus knife scam. companies to design the Para knife. 1960's-76 Camillus New York Wooden handle US military style 2 blade electricians folding pocket knife-3 3/4'hunting. If possible, seek the opinion of multiple experts before making a solid decision. It is marked U.S.N over MARK I. The blade not adopted had a flat blade with plastic Resinox pommel. with their design. You are correct. If you have also been stuck on how to date a Kabar knife properly before you landed on this piece, I believe you must have all the information you need right now. You pull the knife out but drop it. This is the #3 knife Camillus submitted for the test. Paranitrophenol was first registered in the United States in 1963 as a fungicide incorporated into leather products and hides as a preservative. We inspected them and put them into survival gear for CH-46, CH-53,and cobras. It will not be long before you are won over by the versatility and practicality of the Air Force Survival Knife. Marbles prototype: Super rare item. With decades of experience under his belt, Adolph spearheaded the growth and expansion of the Camillus knife company into what we know it as today. Mine is an old C make still kept in my truck. Ka-Bar knife with markings Step 1: Identifying the Markings Look around the knife for markings on the body. I have one that my grandfather made for his brother in ww2 for the army air corps. and it's variations check out Gary Cunningham's Bayonet Points # 8 right here Bayo Points 8 All of these make the recipe for a truly great knife that deserves our attention. All About Pocket Knives is a knife related resource center for buying, selling, researching, and discussing all things knives, Post Late 1944 production through till contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics. Thanks for all the photos. It was made from a spring off a model T. The sheath was made from a leather belt off a steam tractor. PS If you buy the knife today, the seller might include a newer sheath just to promote better knife safety for you. They did not adopt this knife, as we know the M3 was You must log in or register to reply here. As best as can be ascertained, the two holes are used as lashing points for cordage for survival tasks in the field, such as creating a hasty spear. After vetting the information against the published government standards for this knife and the government procurement process, what emerged was a unique story of an iconic knife that has found its way from the military to the civilian outdoor world and into the hearts of many owners and users. This military specification document would become the standard for further improvements and changes to the pilot survival knife throughout the years. Bright blade (no property mark) initial production referred to as a 5-inch hunting knife, bright blade USN now referred to as the Mark 1, USN ricasso stamped with parked blade (corrosion resistant treatment compliance), late procurements with applied MARK 1 ricasso stampings. Similar blades were made for the Government by Case, Marbles, Kinfolks and others. Yes the Vietnam War lasted until 1975 but the majority of US combat I had the Colonial and Geneva knives flipped the wrong way, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. If you have any of those knives, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service. and took them with me when the auction was over. hunting knife. Pilot's Survival Knife. piece, they were never made in WW II. S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass pins marked Kent S-6541 marked, Another as above As above with different tang markings, still a Kent There won't be any pommel markings on this one. 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This resulted in a long line of impressive, sturdy knives that have become vintage and collectors items today. The dummy cord is tied on a hole at the blade guard and then it is sewn in the green pouch. The earliest Camillus factory experimental 6 inch Jet Pilot After more than two decades (1897) in this business, importation costs for the knives were getting higher and wiping out Adolphs profits. This is the early AAC In 1957, the Marble-Arms Corporation submitted to the U.S. government a design based on their Ideal Hunting Knife design. However, it was still adequate for survival situations and therefore remained in the Federal Supply System. and steel domed rivets but with a different grind from above. I became curious about the background and history of this knife about a year ago. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. The sheath shall be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-271, The sheath leather shall be 8/64-inch-thick. The table below shows you different tang stamp designs and when they were circulated.Tang StampDescriptionYear/ Era3-line arch stamp1902-19154-line straight stamp with yearFeatures year of manufacture3-line straight stamp1916 the 1930s4-line straight stampThe 1930s mid-19453-line; non-italic fonts; short underline1946 19503-line; non-italic, full underline; no dots (USA., not U.S.A.)1960 the 1970s3-line stamp; full underline; dotted U.S.A.; italicsThe 1970s 1980s3-line stamp; dotted U.S.A.; mixed caps1989 2007Camillus Knife Tang Stamps and their Eras. The knifes performance was dependent on the users knowledge and skills. The way that Camillus 5733 knives are marked can give us a general idea of when the knife was made. This is the knife as adopted, kept for the Here is the basic history of this knife. Why? Instead, he sought out a smaller cutlery brand in Camillus and joined the management team. Already bankrupt, the brands assets were bought by the Robinson Knife Company who flipped the assets to Cole National in 1966. This blog was how do you say it? I am trying to find any information on a 7 inch U.S. Camillus. While the true nature of the knife remained the same, the naming system and stamp models were not the same anymore. 1 2 3 Items 1 - 12 of 27 Show per page Sort By Camillus Bombat 6" Pocket Knife #19484 $17.99 Additionally, synthetic composite materials like Kevlar had not been fully integrated into aircraft construction until the late 1970s and 1980s. One of the tasks that this knife was designed to accomplish was helping pilots and aircrews egress their downed aircraft or to help first responders extract them from their downed aircraft. Thus, finding ways of reducing the bulk of the Aviation Life Support Equipment (ALSE) assisted in the overall weight considerations for flying. Here is an image of my fullered 5 inch blade next to the saber ground blade knife. S-3647 A prototype that was to have a 10 MM screw compass knife for training and issue. 76, #4). While some are very rare, such as the L-76, L-77, "Bushman" and USMC parachutist knives, several examples are more ubiquitous. This prototype is date 5/13/1954. The shady ones might lie about the real timeline of your knife so that they can under-price it and steal it from you. As such, this knife was not intended as a frontiersman or bushcraft knife, per se. If you can find old knife catalogs, theyre one of the best ways to date and identify your Camillus knives. by Colonel666 Wed May 29, 2013 10:48 pm, Post The OP had such and an easy question, one would think. Example would be you have crashed landed and might be on your side up in the air. But you have an injury to your arm. Some of the knives have no branch of service marking on them. The second question that arises concerning some of the features of this knife is the purpose of the two holes in the blade guard. Not Adopted, Case and Catt got the Q knife From the picture you can see that the length of the hilts are different. Pilot Survival Knife MIL-K-8662(AER). I may be wrong but it may have been produced between 1970-1990, maybe in Asia. If you, Read More How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New)Continue, Some of the best knives that we know today either came before any of the World Wars or were made because of one or both of those wars. These influences upon the procurement system tempered the DoD design features of the knife. The M3 was originally designated for issue to soldiers not otherwise equipped with a bayonet. Any opinions? This is the factory reference A similar issue occurs when dating the Kinfolks knife, but the chances of that error are slim. The good news is that I found multiple ways to determine how old your Camillus knife is. The bolt end of the handle is unmarked. RdksTreasures. Did you recently find a Camillus knife, and youd like to know what era it came from? I have never heard it being issued in the Navy but can say without a doubt many all of us flight crew members were issued one. I know my knives - maybe not as well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you. 5684: This is the WW II USMC blade marked knife in the These knives became popular with outdoorsman. I own one as a backup knife for my backpacking, outdoor, and emergency needs. This is it. Well I got my first one from and Army Helicopter pilot in Germany 1963. Today, its time to date the Cattaraugus knife to a specific era and see what beauty you have, Read More How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained)Continue, I have written different guides on how to date different knives to a specific era but this one is different. Do you think your Camillus is older than your friends, but neither is sure? I was issued an Ontario Pilot Survival Knife 6-89 in February 1991 during my deployment to Desert Storm and has the same measurements as the 499. The U.S. Defense Department published to private industry requirements for a standardized fixed blade knife to issue to pilots and aircrews of the various service branches. However, the essential features of the knife have remained constant throughout the life of the knife. Additionally, the jet age in military aviation increased the number of gear pilots and aircrews had to carry on their flights. The leather for the grip will be cut into washers, 1/8 inch in thickness. The blade design is different then the Must have forgotten to take it out when I updated the piece with the second bullet point, Your email address will not be published. Thanks for sharing. (Author's note: Camillus had developed the Mark II during World War II, and made more Mark II's than anyone else, though the Marines still called the Camillus-designed Mark II knife "the Ka-Bar.") The New-and-Improved Camillus M3 In the 1980s, the U.S. Armed Forces discussed improving the M3.

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